♪♪ It has been a busy first month for the new Higher Education Committee in the Iowa House.

We'll talk about policy impacting Iowa's public, private and community colleges and universities with the committee's chair and ranking member on this edition of Iowa Press.

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♪♪ For decades, Iowa Press has brought you political leaders and newsmakers from across Iowa and beyond.

Celebrating more than 50 years on statewide Iowa PBS, this is the Friday, February 7th edition of Iowa Press.

Here is Kay Henderson.

♪♪ [Henderson] In November after the election, House Speaker Pat Grassley announced that he was creating a new committee in the Iowa House, the Higher Education Committee.

And he asked it to do a top to bottom systemic review of the state's universities in Iowa City, Ames and Cedar Falls, as well as the public colleges and universities around the state.

Our guests today are two members of that panel.

Representative Taylor Collins, a republican from Mediapolis is the Chairman of the Committee.

And Ross Wilburn, the former Mayor of Iowa City, who currently lives in Ames and is a former Chair of the Iowa Democratic Party, is on the committee, the ranking democrat.

Gentlemen, welcome to Iowa Press.

[Collins] Thanks for having me, Kay.

[Wilburn] Thank you.

[Henderson] Also joining the conversation is Erin Murphy of the Gazette in Cedar Rapids.

[Murphy] Representative Collins, beyond what Kay just laid out, tell us by way of introduction here why the House republicans felt this committee was necessary.

[Collins] Yeah, I think you heard from Speaker Grassley when he created the committee shortly after the November election that a comprehensive review of Iowa's higher education system is long overdue.

And you look back at actually the last time we had a higher education committee in the Iowa House, that was in 1971 and that was in a time when that Vietnam War era, many protests on campus, many argue that it was in kind of a state of chaos.

And I would argue today we're in a different crisis and that is now a crisis of confidence.

Only 36% of Americans have any confidence left in our higher education system and that is down from 57% only ten years ago.

So, a comprehensive review and really making sure we can restore trust in our institutions is long overdue.

[Murphy] Representative Wilburn, you are the ranking democrat, the top democrat on the committee.

Was this a position you sought?

And why did you want to be a member of this committee?

[Wilburn] I was asked to serve on the committee because I am a University of Iowa grad, I taught at the University of Iowa for a little bit and I work for Iowa State University Extension.

And the fact of the matter is a review of higher ed, there's no problem with that.

But two of the bills are some type of review, but about eleven of those bills are dictating what courses could or could not be taught.

One of them even says that UNI and Iowa State University should re-establish baseball teams.

And so, none of the members, republican members, a week before the session could say what the committee was going to do when I was at the Farm Bureau Forum as well as the chamber.

So, I don't think it's a genuine effort at taking a look at what is going to be there as much as dictating what they feel should be going on.

[Murphy] We're going to get into some of those bills specifically.

[Henderson] Just going back to last year, Representative Collins, you sort of led the charge in the House to require the dissolution of diversity, equity and inclusion programs at the Regents institutions.

Why was that a priority?

[Collins] It was a priority because I think Americans and Iowans are sick of identity politics.

And really, I think one of the reasons why we have a lack of trust in our higher education system is we're getting distracted from many of the mission focused, the agendas that we've given our institutions.

Our institutions were developed to not only develop civic learners but also making sure we're filling the workforce needs of the state.

And so, as House republicans we felt that that was a distraction and it really led to even more distress in our higher education system.

[Henderson] Representative Wilburn, when you worked for Iowa State University Extension you were a diversity consultant.

So, what are your thoughts on this?

[Wilburn] If we can step back for a minute, diversity is why we have curb cuts for wheelchairs to get over.

Diversity is why women have a right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace.

Diversity is why there are housing opportunities for people with disabilities, people with intellectual disabilities as well as older Iowans.

And so, it has been just this relentless attack on the successes that we have, opportunities for people of color, older, rural, urban.

So, it's unfortunate that these efforts are tapping into fear and trying to stoke fear into Iowans.

And it's all the way to the top.

The President is blaming diversity, equity and inclusion for fires and plane crashes.

It's just really sad that we are going backwards from Iowa's success in lifting everyone, all of us.

[Murphy] Representative Collins, one of the proposals on the table this year addresses the Iowa Tuition Grant, which is scholarships that go to private college and stating that it can't be used at a school that has DEI programs.

So, this is extending that debate now from the public universities to private colleges as well.

Can you explain why you feel that's appropriate?

[Collins] I think as House republicans, like I shared with Kay, we're done with the identity politics.

I know Iowa democrats have latched onto the idea that we're trying to separate K-12 and higher education.

But look, when it comes to DEI, we're over it.

Elections have consequences.

You heard Representative Wilburn mention some of the actions from the Trump administration.

And we just view it as a distraction at this point.

[Murphy] But why is it the role for state lawmakers to be enacting this policy on private colleges?

[Collins] Well, we believe it's important enough that we want to take that step forward.

We have already taken that step with the Regents institutions.

You've seen a bill when it comes to community colleges as well.

And I think that aligns with many efforts of the Trump administration as well to get rid of DEI throughout state government and the federal government.

[Murphy] Republicans, Representative Collins, a couple of years ago passed legislation that created taxpayer funding for private school tuition assistance, the ESAs.

That contained no strings, requirement for curriculum, anything along those lines.

Why should there be strings tied to the, attached to the Iowa Tuition Grant, but not to ESAs?

[Collins] Let's not pretend like there's no accountability in the ESA system because I've heard that before actually on this program.

In order for an institution to even quality for the ESA program they have to be accredited by the state and follow many of the same standards and testing requirements that public schools have to as well.

When it comes to the Iowa Tuition Grant, the reason why we're looking at many of these proposals is to make sure that our private institutions are our partner in addressing the workforce needs of the state.

We want them to come to the table and I hope they do that.

[Henderson] Representative Wilburn, you haven't weighed in on this.

[Wilburn] It's important that we are looking at workforce and I wish that were the focus or part of the focus of the committee.

But with the Iowa Tuition Grant they're looking at really emphasizing certain occupations.

We need people of faith to be able to go to college and get a degree and to help nourish our souls.

We need jobs for those who are coming here with a variety of technical professions to have opportunity to get into nursing or some other type of service-oriented program.

We need to have those.

But again, I go back to this was supposed to be a review, but they've got a whole lot of solutions in their mind that are getting away from the jewel that diversity is.

Diversity is why you cannot be denied a job because of a certain hairstyle that you have.

It's a reason that women have opportunity who have a child can have breastfeeding rooms available.

It's a reason that an inclusive park is available for kids with disabilities to play baseball.

And they call it identity politics.

We talk about making sure that there are opportunities for everyone.

[Henderson] One of the bills that has been discussed in regards to this community is capping tuition at 3% at the state universities.

Why is that a priority of this committee rather than some other committee that deals with financial issues?

[Collins] Well, it's not an appropriations bill.

It actually caps the tuition increase and so that is an action by the Board of Regents and so that is why it's a policy bill and can go through my committee.

[Henderson] So, how did you settle on 3%?

[Collins] That was actually included in a bill last year and we believe that's a reasonable level.

I'm sure you've seen many of the property tax bills that are around that number as well and looking at state government going back over ten years between 2% to 3% is oftentimes how much we've increased the state budget.

The reason why we've landed on a round number like that is to make sure that Iowa students as they're looking at higher education, they know and can be assured that their tuition isn't going to increase by substantial amounts year after year.

[Henderson] Representative Wilburn, I covered the legislature in the last decade and I remembered that some democrats have made this proposal in the past in the 1980s and '90s.

Is this something that democrats support?

[Wilburn] My democratic colleagues, we want to take a look at keeping costs low.

We want to keep college affordable as well as trying to provide some sort of resources to make sure that we are having opportunities for people to get an education, stay in Iowa.

So, it's something that we're willing to take a look at.

[Murphy] Representative Collins, I covered a subcommittee where that bill was considered and your colleague, democratic colleague, Representative Jacoby talked about, had similar things to what Representative Wilburn just said, but also talked about the funding levels and feeling that the state maybe hasn't kept up to the funding needed to support keeping tuition increases down.

What is your reaction on that?

[Collins] We've heard that talking point from Iowa democrats for some time and their only solution when it comes to the cost of higher education has really been only to throw more money at the system.

And I think as you heard from one presenter that actually came to the committee recently trying to address the costs of higher education by giving them more money is about like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The fact is we appropriate nearly $600 million a year to our Regents institutions.

You look at their total budgets, if you set aside University of Iowa Hospitals, it's about $5 billion.

So, to look at this system and say that it needs more money, I would just really question that, especially once you dig into the budgets and identify that only about a third of that is actually going towards academic instruction.

[Wilburn] Education hasn't -- funding from the legislature hasn't kept up with the rate of inflation for education across the board.

[Murphy] Is that accurate in your view, Representative Collins?

[Collins] I think over the last 50 years you've seen less of a reliance on appropriations and more towards the system of making sure it's not just having a free higher education system because there is a balance there.

[Murphy] Moving on, and speaking of rearranging, Representative Collins I wanted to ask you about the School of Social and Cultural Analysis at the University of Iowa.

You and a colleague of yours on the Senate side have asked the Regents to reject the proposal that has been put forth from the University of Iowa on that.

If you could tell us why you have asked them to -- [Collins] We are no longer interested in making sure that our constituents are having to pay for academic programs like social justice and gender studies.

That's ridiculous and the University of Iowa I believe will be rolling back that proposal because they have realized that no longer do Iowans support those kind of woke academic programs.

But it's vitally important that we actually focus on the workforce needs of the state and not giving money towards institutions, programs like that.

If that money could have been put towards, for example, the nursing program, which they have asked for more money for every single year, I think that would be a much better use of taxpayer dollars.

[Henderson] Representative Wilburn, what is your advice to the Regents?

Which is the board that the Governor appoints that oversees the operations of the three state universities.

[Wilburn] What Representative Collins is talking about is legislative overreach.

That is why we have the Regents to take a look at what programming should be available in terms of we've got gender studies, it's important to have when women are making less than men with a similar experience for the same job.

Social justice, African-American men are less than 4% of the population in Iowa but represent 25% of people incarcerated in the state of Iowa.

That is a justice issue and if Representative Collins is against that then we have a major point of disagreement.

[Murphy] Well and Representative, you raised a point, Representative Collins, I'd like to ask you about and I asked a similar question to Speaker Grassley when he was on this show shortly after the Condition of the State a few weeks back.

It kind of gets into a philosophical I think discussion about the role the Board of Regents plays versus the legislature.

There are some people, and I think Representative Wilburn was sort of alluding to this, that would say that board is in place to oversee the universities and they have their role for guiding those kinds of policies and that the actions, the proposal being put forth now by some of your legislation oversteps that and gets in the way of the Board of Regents.

What would you say to that?

[Collins] Well, the Board of Regents should have been doing their job, quite frankly, and I believe the House republicans at least believe there's many instances where there have not stepped up and actually governed the universities.

Many of the issues were dealing with I believe should have been addressed with the Board of Regents but they have been either unwilling or unwilling to do so.

So that's a major problem.

But look, you look across state government whether it is the Racing and Gaming Commission, many other commissions and boards the state legislature addresses, we're happy to get involved in instances where we believe steps are not being taken.

[Wilburn] If Representative Collins doesn't feel the Regents were doing their job, those are Governor Reynolds appointees.

So, his issue is with Governor Reynolds, not with the Regents.

[Henderson] When I interviewed Senator Whitver before the session started in December, he said he thought the Governor had appointed strong people to the board and he thought they were doing a good job.

Is this a point of contention between the House and the Senate?

[Collins] I don't think so.

And as I told you in an interview before I believe some of the most recent appointments have been very positive nominees.

And I think you're seeing a change in really the culture of the Board of Regents and realizing that they need to change how they're operating.

At least three of the bills that I have put forward they have actually registered in favor of and a year ago I don't think you would have ever seen that.

[Murphy] Representative Collins, a couple of other bills that I want to talk about sort of in partnership here.

I'm interested to get your thoughts on both.

One would require the community colleges to offer a bachelor's degree and according to our research there are a number of other states already doing something similar and also would require the Regents to offer three-year bachelor's degrees.

Those kind of seem similar in theme to me but I wanted to have you talk about why you felt those are both needed.

[Collins] It just goes back to making sure that we're addressing the workforce needs of the state.

The community college discussion wasn't necessarily a bill but I have charged the Community College Association to come back with a report before the next legislative session to see what kind of options they may be able to offer when it comes to bachelor degrees.

Now, when we look at an instance like a single mom in Burlington, they have to travel an hour and a half to go to Iowa City.

That's too far.

Sometimes they may be able to do that education online, but not necessarily everyone succeeds in that environment.

And going back to three-year bachelor degrees, some colleges and universities are offering that now and the Higher Learning Commission, which accredits our three Regents institutions, has now issued guidance on how to basically submit a proposal to get that accredited as well.

So, it just goes back to not only cost, our community colleges are much more affordable than our Regent institutions right now, as well as getting folks directly into that workforce pipeline.

If we can shave off a year of education and it not only saves money but it gets that person into the workforce a year earlier.

[Henderson] Are these proposals, Representative Wilburn, that democrats can get behind?

[Wilburn] I think it's something we can really take a look at.

Representative Collins mentioned during the committee that a presentation about community colleges is that this is something that perhaps would go on into the session.

I think that's great, let's take a look.

But again, unfortunately with the other bills that are in it in the committee it's not a review, it's really dictating some things that are on someone's personal agenda.

[Henderson] Representative Collins, there is also a bill about the general education requirements.

So, first for our viewers who may not know what a general education requirement is, what is that?

[Collins] A general education requirement is basically the standard curriculum that everyone has to take as they go through college.

[Henderson] The credits.

[Collins] The credits basically, that first year usually, although some students spread that throughout their education.

Right now, we have general education requirements that are across the board not only at each of our Regent institutions but also at each individual college.

For example, if you're an engineering major it may be different than a business major.

I think it's important that we standardize that core curriculum.

I want to make it easier for students to transfer between our three Regent institutions, but also make it easier for many students who go into their college career, they oftentimes switch majors within those first couple of years, make it easier to make sure they don't have to redo those credits and also restore a true liberal arts education, which I believe is truly lacking not only across the country but also in the state of Iowa.

[Henderson] Representative Wilburn, the last time I read this bill it required that in order to graduate part of your general education credits had to be a course in American history.

Is that something that you think is valuable to everyone who graduates from one of the Regents universities to have passed that course?

[Wilburn] Before I go there, in terms of engineering and blanketing, requiring the same general education requirements, I think it's important that the experts, the educators have laid out a sequence of courses that they feel for engineering, for example, that is important that they have.

It's important that those engineering students, and you can pick other departments, that the experts have said here is what they need before the graduate in order to be competitive in the workforce.

I think American history, all of American history is important to take a look at.

And our educators should be allowed to do that without fear of retribution and contact from the Attorney General's Office that they violated something that was prescribed by a non-expert.

[Murphy] The discussion here about the workforce I'm hearing a lot, Representative Collins, and this is again maybe getting a little bit philosophical.

I'm curious your perspective on the role of the universities in Iowa and producing workforce workers for the jobs that are needed, which I hear a lot about at the Statehouse, versus just a broader view of just creating well-rounded, well-educated individuals.

Where do you land on that spectrum?

[Collins] It's a balance really and it also has to be up to those Iowa students.

Some students may not have the funds or the time to be able to go through four years of education and spend a solid year on a liberal arts education.

There are some students that really value that and we want to give them the opportunity to do so.

And that is why we're creating a menu of options, three-year degrees, community colleges, as well as a true liberal arts education through changes to the core curriculum.

[Murphy] Representative Wilburn, how do you see the role of Iowa's universities in preparing 18-to-22-year-olds in this state?

[Wilburn] It's important to have options not only to meet the workforce, those that are in demand, but for people who aspire to get into professions that they have dreamt of.

If it's somebody who wants to study film and become a filmmaker and win an Oscar, a musician to win a Grammy, those are the things that historically Iowa has embraced opportunities for all to have a world class education.

[Henderson] There was a legislator from Cedar Rapids several years ago who suggested that these institutions in Ames, Iowa City and Cedar Falls should be privatized.

Is that an ultimate goal?

[Collins] No.

[Henderson] Why?

[Collins] I've honestly never heard of that proposal.

I'm not sure it's something we're interested in.

[Henderson] Let's turn to the idea of the University of Iowa health care hospitals and clinics, they have different names kind of interchangeable.

There are people who are upset in the private sector and think that they are expanding too much and that they're encroaching on other hospitals and institutions.

Do legislators share that concern?

[Collins] I think there is some legislators that have shared those concerns.

I've actually heard those concerns from private industry as well.

At some point I do think we need to have a conversation about how much of a reach we have from UIHC and how far they're really going to expand because there is right now in rural Iowa obviously the health care industry is struggling, but we also have to balance that with making sure that we're not in an Armageddon here of health care and really duplicating services, which are oftentimes funded through Medicaid, Medicare and other state appropriations.

[Henderson] What is your view of the University of Iowa Health Care, Representative Wilburn?

You lived in Iowa City.

There are people who think they shouldn't be building a new facility in North Liberty.

[Wilburn] Health care, we all need health care, there has to be those opportunities.

We need to have services and supports available.

I think this is something that further conversation, further study, it's important to do.

I don't think that the legislature or the Governor should really be a driving force behind that.

This may be a situation where maybe the market can't attend to certain things, especially if some of the bills come through and potentially, they may not be able to require a doctor to have a specialization, a certification to have training for cervical cancer, lupus, sickle cell anemia, there's a bill that says they can't incentivize or require the schools to have people have those types of certifications or be reimbursed for those.

[Collins] There is not mentioned anywhere in the bill.

[Murphy] I don't have it in front of me to fact check so we'll have to move on.

I apologize for that.

We've got just a couple of minutes left.

[Wilburn] Well, as a matter of fact, Representative Holt said he would be willing to take a look at amending it so that that didn't happen.

Sorry, I just wanted to clarify that.

[Murphy] That's okay.

In our last about a minute and a half now, Representative Collins, I want to circle back because a lot of the stuff we're talking about obviously is legislation proposals coming from the House and it was alluded to earlier that need to find wiling partners on the other side of the aisle too to get these to Governor Reynolds' desk.

We just had an example this past week that I believe was also alluded to with the Racing and Gaming Commission.

House republicans wanted to put a moratorium on new casinos.

Senate republicans decided to let the Racing and Gaming Commission perform its function.

I'm wondering how much conversation you've had with your Senate colleagues on some of these bills or more broadly?

Do you have any concern that this might run into a similar situation where House republicans pass these bills and Senate republicans say, we're going to let the Board of Regents do their job, just like they said, we're going to let the Racing and Gaming Commission do theirs?

[Collins] Sure.

I don't want to speak for the Senate but I've had some very positive conversations with Senator Evans, my counterpart in the Senate, and I think you've seen shared agreement between the Governor's Office and the Senate when it comes to many issues such as DEI.

So, I've had positive conversations.

I think there is a willingness in the other chamber to look at some of these issues and I think they'll consider many of these bills because specifically two of them, the review of the academic programs and the School of Intellectual Freedom actually have Senate companions already.

[Henderson] Representative Wilburn, very quickly, should Iowa State have baseball again?

[Wilburn] They need to get people to -- people need to come to the games.

They didn't before and that is in part why it disappeared.

I do like baseball though.

[Henderson] Our time at this table has disappeared.

Thanks to both of you for being here and sharing your views.

You can watch every episode of Iowa Press at iowapbs.org.

For everyone here at Iowa PBS, thanks for watching today.

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